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#5923 - 02/18/09 03:05 PM Re: Power Ranking updates??? [Re: uffleshuffle]
houdini84 Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 241
yeah i know what your saying, I agree thats a great warm up for nationals, as is the mckendree baker challenge! ;\) everyone should be there.... I just look at it through our stand point were we are not in a conerence and dont get the benefits of easy power points like that... but thats ok,, i guess none of that matters. everything comes down to sectionals and nationals
_________________________
JR Raymond

Mckendree University

http://www.Stormbowling.com

The start of a new beginning

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#5924 - 02/18/09 03:33 PM Re: Power Ranking updates??? [Re: houdini84]
uffleshuffle Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 326
Loc: Iowa
Okay, see you're still missing the fundamental definition here (in a nutshell):
-a USBC Certified Conference is a separate series, in which each individual event does not receive power points, but I believe that the true champion of the conference gets an automatic bid to Sectionals, regardless of rank. That is the most obvious benefit to a "conference"
-The American Heartland Conference is a series of Tier II events, hosted by the same group, but open to anyone. So you can't say "we are not in a conference" and feel disadvantaged. We (the teams that bowl the AHIBC) are not IN a conference either. If McKendree wants to bowl some AHIBC events, they, as well as any other team that wants to pay the entry fee (like any Tier II) is welcome. I'm sure everyone would love to have you. How many Tier II's does McKendree attend? Are there any that have a less than top notch field? (I'm not trying to be smart, I'm just asking). That's all the AHIBC is, Tier II's, open to everyone... That should really be the end of this argument...

Now, if you want to argue against REAL conferences, I suggest you do some research on them, and then take your argument from there. I'm not sure which ones are recognized conferences, maybe the SWIBC?

Uffman
_________________________
Christopher P. Uffman
Assistant Coach
Midland University
Fremont, NE

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#5925 - 02/18/09 03:41 PM Re: Power Ranking updates??? [Re: houdini84]
Scott Offline
forum member


Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Lansing, MI
I wouldnt say that just because Saginaw is in a conference, doesnt mean its easy power points. The shots are still tough as evidence by the field average of the tournaments Saginaw bowls (181.98 through 11 tournaments). This includes the 4 "conference" events Saginaw bowls in. McKendree field average in tournaments bowled this year? 187.54 over 8 tournaments. looks like these kinda cancel out if you ask me. It all has to do with where you bowl, who you bowl against, and what shot is put out.
_________________________
Scott Honeysett
Michigan State University

Were you high today or was I?

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#5926 - 02/18/09 03:44 PM Re: Power Ranking updates??? [Re: uffleshuffle]
houdini84 Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 241
ok dude, im not trying to argue with you, IM JUST TELLING YOU MY POINT. and im not the only one that feels this way trust me... i know your smarter than this..... you can call it what you want, but the point is that it is a weak set of "conference" tournaments that give power points such as a tier 2, but all im saying is they shouldnt count,, there needs to be more regulations than just amount of teams and games bowled,,, I know you understand what im saying,,, just give it a second you will get it.... I was stating my point like a normal person not trying to be a dick, then you feel that you need to come on here and argue when im not argueing anything, just telling you how it should be..... if you dont like it im sorry,, but thats how it is,,,, i dont like how the conference is so i have to live with it... same thing dude..... dont tell me to do research when that has nothing to do with what i am talking about......

Edited by houdini84 (02/18/09 03:50 PM)
_________________________
JR Raymond

Mckendree University

http://www.Stormbowling.com

The start of a new beginning

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#5927 - 02/18/09 03:47 PM Re: Power Ranking updates??? [Re: Scott]
houdini84 Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 241
 Originally Posted By: Scott
I wouldnt say that just because Saginaw is in a conference, doesnt mean its easy power points. The shots are still tough as evidence by the field average of the tournaments Saginaw bowls (181.98 through 11 tournaments). This includes the 4 "conference" events Saginaw bowls in. McKendree field average in tournaments bowled this year? 187.54 over 8 tournaments. looks like these kinda cancel out if you ask me. It all has to do with where you bowl, who you bowl against, and what shot is put out.


my point is.................the feild average is low because of the competition in those events.... the feild average we have is high because of better competition...... that is my point,,, there is nothing except sag and tim p in the conference. thats all im saying...
_________________________
JR Raymond

Mckendree University

http://www.Stormbowling.com

The start of a new beginning

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#5928 - 02/18/09 03:57 PM Re: Power Ranking updates??? [Re: houdini84]
houdini84 Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 241
I dont know how else to explain what im saying.... if you dont understand by now then i give up cuz its simple to understand if you ask me,,,, but what do i know? right? who am I? I just go bowl when im told to bowl
_________________________
JR Raymond

Mckendree University

http://www.Stormbowling.com

The start of a new beginning

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#5929 - 02/18/09 04:00 PM Re: Power Ranking updates??? [Re: houdini84]
uffleshuffle Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 326
Loc: Iowa
First, please don't call me dude. Second, I'm honestly not arguing with you, I'm just trying give the valid counterpoint to your argument about not awarding power points to AHIBC. It's not a matter of conferences getting power points, because true conferences don't receive points, so your argument boils down to whether or not AHIBC should be awarded power points.
So I'm trying to get at the validity of your argument, which I think is a respectable thing to do if someone wants their argument heard and considered.
If not the number of teams involved, and the number of games bowled, how could you objectively evaluate events and award points? Rankings change week to week, so if you used that as a barometer for awarding points, an event that would be worth points one week may not be worth points the next, as the average ranking of the teams involved would change.
And in the spirit of competition and participation, you can't start turning teams away simply because they don't meet the standards you set for talent. It's a matter of proximity, funding, schedule, etc. What about the Tier II's that your team attends? Should those not count for points? There are usually more teams at AHIBC than the majority of other Tier II's. What's the level of difficulty at the Hoinke? Looking at the rankings, MSU has only one more non-Tier I event than McKendree, so is it really THAT much of an advantage?

Uffman
_________________________
Christopher P. Uffman
Assistant Coach
Midland University
Fremont, NE

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#5930 - 02/18/09 04:26 PM Re: Power Ranking updates??? [Re: uffleshuffle]
BallUBowler Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 58
Loc: Muncie, IN
I think the misconception is that teams need to be part of a conference, or have special standing in order to be in this tournament. AHIBC just seems like a cost efficent set of tournaments to allow teams more chances to bowl without spending $$$$$. All the tournaments are easily accessible. In my opinion, if more coaches were aware of the fact that ANY team could enter the tournaments, more would/should do so. I'm not familiar with what all teams bowl these tournies, but I do realize that if your team is not a top notch program, you should definitely look at bowling these (by top notch, I mean both talent and funding wise $$$$). An easy cost efficent, yet powerful schedule for a season would be all the AHIBC events, Blue/Gold, Hoosier, Team Match Games, and throw in an event here or there if you can. For midwest schools, the travel to those tournaments would be easy to achieve. Then you have the "talented" fields at the Tier 1's, and the normal fields at the Tier 2's
_________________________
Michael Kittrell
Ball State University '08

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#5931 - 02/18/09 04:44 PM Re: Power Ranking updates??? [Re: BallUBowler]
uffleshuffle Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 326
Loc: Iowa
The Tier I/Tier II designation tends to dictate the fields that you can expect at each event. In general, since there are more points to be awarded, and more tradition, Tier I's usually attract a larger, more representative field of college teams. Sometimes because of higher purses (such as the Illinois BPA) or specialized formats (such as the all baker "ITC Tune Up" events), Tier II's can bring out a more talented, wider spread group than normal.
As stated above, the events that a program decides to attend are picked much more often based on proximity, cost and openings in schedules. The overall talent of a projected field enters into the thought process as a much lower priority.

Our schedule, for example:

AHIBC I Lorain, OH (close proximity, typical Tier II field)
Hammer Midwest Wauwatosa, WI (Tier I field, historic event)
Illinois State BPA Classic Freeport, IL (Tier II field, large payout)
AHIBC II Warren, OH (close, Tier II field)
National Team Match Games Fairview Hts., IL (Tough field, long history)
AHIBC III Toledo, OH
AHIBC IV Toledo, OH (Long two day event, good for Sectionals)
Keystone Quaker Allentown, PA (Tier I, fun holiday event)
Nittany Lion Kegler Maple Shade, NJ (Another Tier I field)
Blue and Gold South Bend, IN (Large Tier I field, close)
AHIBC Championship Westland, MI (Very close, all baker, some matchplay, no power points awarded, prize money from the season)
The Hoosier (No introduction needed...)

Like Michael said, AHIBC allows teams to fill holes between Tier I's with close, affordable Tier II's that are still competitive.

Uffman
_________________________
Christopher P. Uffman
Assistant Coach
Midland University
Fremont, NE

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#5932 - 02/18/09 04:44 PM Re: Power Ranking updates??? [Re: BallUBowler]
Greg Offline
forum member


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 227
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Wait? Let me get this straight...we shouldn't get power points for bowling in AHIBC tournaments? Are Saginaw Valley and Robert Morris (which amounts to 3 of the last 6 semifinalists in College Bowling) not stiff enough competition? How about Michigan State, Grand Valley, and Davenport? All of which are currently ranked in the top 50.

Until the AHIBC stops making noise at the ITCs there is no claim to a lack of competition at AHIBC events.
_________________________
Greg Nicholson
The University of Michigan
]V[ Go Blue!

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